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Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1403
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Posted - 2012.10.08 17:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Andski wrote:Power of Two and resculpts for PLEX seem to be the culprit for this recent spike. FW tier 5 is probably a bigger culprit.. I suspect in a bit the Tourney PLEX auction soon will also become a big PLEX spike culprit in a little bit.... how much longer until 700million PLEX?  Why is it relevant? If plexes sell for 700M, that's because the market allows them to sell for 700M.
I wish I could say I were surprised to see DarthNefarius qq'ing over economic burdens, though.  He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |

Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1403
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Posted - 2012.10.08 18:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Andski wrote:Power of Two and resculpts for PLEX seem to be the culprit for this recent spike. FW tier 5 is probably a bigger culprit.. I suspect in a bit the Tourney PLEX auction soon will also become a big PLEX spike culprit in a little bit.... how much longer until 700million PLEX?  Why is it relevant? If plexes sell for 700M, that's because the market allows them to sell for 700M.I wish I could say I were surprised to see DarthNefarius qq'ing over economic burdens, though.  We don't care what the market allows. We demand CCP's direct interference to curb these anti-proletariat 1% price gougers. The market should serve the people, and not the rich! Have fun with that when PLEX are a capitalist concept.  He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |

Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1403
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Posted - 2012.10.08 19:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
Gogela wrote:Karl Hobb wrote:Oh man, this is awesome. If you see this Gogela, thanks, that investment is going to pay off (one way or another). Yah... don't thank me yet because the other shoe will drop eventually. What's happening now is the winter "hype" bubble. This thread isn't helping. I expect PLEX to go up in price as people get amped for the next expansion and what we assume will be DUST players coming into the game... but what threads like this do is get everybody speculating... which creates a bubble. Any time people are investing in something they don't intend to consume, the supply and demand equation gets biased towards false demand. PLEX prices are not rising at a natural rate right now. People are speculating and it's moving up at an imbalanced pace. Just be careful Karl. Yes you can make a fortune... but you can just as easily loose one by leveraging in the wrong direction! That said, if you bought your stock at 550 mil / PLEX, I don't think it will ever drop below that again. So GL! I'd like to translate this for all the movers and shakers:
Buy PLEX low now.
Sell PLEX high later.
Value = Demand / Supply
This has been a public service announcement from Darth Gustav.
He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |

Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1403
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Posted - 2012.10.08 19:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Kyt Thrace wrote:Do people really NOT understand Supply & Demand :P You mean CCP? I can't figure out why they keep introducing MORE uses for PLEX when that market is already ridiculously inflated. Value = Demand / Supply. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |

Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1407
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Posted - 2012.10.08 19:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
Gogela wrote:Karl Hobb wrote:Gogela wrote:Just be careful Karl. Yes you can make a fortune... but you can just as easily loose one by leveraging in the wrong direction! That said, if you bought your stock at 550 mil / PLEX, I don't think it will ever drop below that again. So GL! I appreciate the advice (and the speculation  ). I made a few hundred mil off the recent zydrine speculation so I feel that even little 'ole amateurish me can watch for bubble signs. Even so, PLEX is special in that it's game time, so it's pretty much win-win for me anyway. That's why I don't really speculate in it (PLEX). There's no telling what can happen. You can make a ton of ISK every month just playing swings... but there's so much risk. DUST is a big variable. I'll be the first to admit that despite my speculation, I really have no idea what's actually going to happen with DUST. What if EvE gets a million new nubs in a month or two? It could totally happen. What would happen to the market? No idea. Will they be more likely to buy PLEX and sell it on the market? I would bet so. That could actually crash the PLEX market. Buy things with low volume for a good chance of a win b4 DUST is on TQ... is my wild a** guess on how to invest. Parcel together poor investments and bundle them as A1. People got away with it in RL and scams are allowed in Eve.
You should make a fortune. 
PS If you do I want a finder's fee. Thanks! He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |

Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1409
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Posted - 2012.10.08 20:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Have 4 accounts. Tough financial month though. Wanted to buy PLEX as I usually do for at least 2 of the accounts.
1.2 Billion for 2 PLEX would wipe me out though.
So, this means 2 accounts are being suspended this month in the next 3 days. Loss for CCP. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
If a 2 1/2 year player like myself cannot make this viable, the entire idea behind PLEX is blown to smithereens. This looks an awful lot like complaining to me. 
Do as Krixtal says, not as Krixtal does.  He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |

Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1484
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Posted - 2012.10.11 17:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
Tear Miner wrote:veritas primus wrote:Supply and Demand.
If someone is willing to pay me 600mil + for a PLEX, why in the hell would I sell it for 400mil?
Nothing to see here move along... I believe we've already established some pages ago that it's not just as simple as "supply and demand". No amount of parroting "SQUAWK SUPPLY AND DEMAND SQUAWK" is going to change that. Sorry, but you're going to have to actually think a little deeper, or if that's too much for you, stop bumping this thread with useless posts. I've been keeping tabs on this thread and I'm afraid I disagree with this post on a very fundamental level.
This is entirely a function of supply and demand. Look:
Value = Demand / Supply.
RL economic times are tough. I'm going to assume that the supply of new PLEX on the market is nearly constant with a very slight increase over time for the purposes of discussion.
PLEX went up. So on the left side of the equal sign we have an increase. Now we need to look to the right side and see what we can do with the numbers to make that happen. Since it is our premise that new PLEX supply is nominally steady with a slight increse, this would actually result in a slight downward trend if it were the only factor. So that's not the issue. The only other term on the right side of the equal sign is Demand. In order for Value to increase when Supply is increasing, demand needs to increase considerably. There aren't any other terms on the right of the equal sign to allow for the increase in pricing, so we now know beyond reasonable doubt exactly what's up.
Oh look, that's predictable based on CCP adding new demand sources for PLEX! Not only that, but more people are mining now and undoubtedly buying PLEX to do so.
Go figure, it does come down to supply and demand, after all! He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |

Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1484
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Posted - 2012.10.11 18:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tear Miner wrote:Hafa Anstian wrote:Tear Miner wrote:veritas primus wrote:Supply and Demand.
If someone is willing to pay me 600mil + for a PLEX, why in the hell would I sell it for 400mil?
Nothing to see here move along... I believe we've already established some pages ago that it's not just as simple as "supply and demand". No amount of parroting "SQUAWK SUPPLY AND DEMAND SQUAWK" is going to change that. Sorry, but you're going to have to actually think a little deeper, or if that's too much for you, stop bumping this thread with useless posts. It is simple macro economics, a change in Y* or equilibrium price is only due to a change in aggregate demand or supply. If Y > Y* then demand or supply will adjust. In this case supply seems to be adjusting for it. Before someone starts talking about how it ISNT supply or demand they better well understand freshman macro economics. That's a nice quip, however I never said it wasn't supply and demand, I merely suggested that just parroting supply and demand isn't enough to explain anything and ultimately gets this discussion nowhere. I'm pretty sure you could teach a five year old how to understand the concept of supply and demand, it's pretty pedestrian. I'm more interested in the factors that influence supply and demand, to me that's where the real interesting theories come from. Nice straw man, though. I notice you didn't attempt to specify other terms on the right hand side of my equation. I'm on pins and needles to see what your "x factor" is and how it fits into the generally accepted principles of economics and how that relates to increasing PLEX prices.
I bet this is going to be very enlightening! He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |

Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1485
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Posted - 2012.10.11 18:19:00 -
[9] - Quote
Tear Miner wrote:Is this FA guy for real? First I didn't even read your post, because, well anything FA has to say is usually not worth the time.
lol. I was certainly correct. Very enlightening.
Still waiting for some content, though. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |

Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1485
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Posted - 2012.10.11 18:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tear Miner wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:Tear Miner wrote:Is this FA guy for real? First I didn't even read your post, because, well anything FA has to say is usually not worth the time.
lol. I was certainly correct. Very enlightening. Still waiting for some content, though. Fine, I'll bite. You're wrong to assume that the PLEX supply is more or less the same. CCP has added new sources to take PLEX supply out of the equation (power of 2, resculpt), their PLEX sales haven't been that frequent. Also, a large class of players have come into some serious isk (read: Faction Warfare). A lot of these guys are fueling their FW alt armies with PLEX. Less people are buying PLEX for real cash and a lot more have the purchasing power to buy PLEX than ever before, thereby driving the supply down. That sounds to me like supply isn't increasing as fast as it was. We don't need a strong uptick in demand, there's simply not enough supply on top of the fact there's more demand. Anyway, at the end of the day I'm not even talking directly about supply and demand, but how factors are affecting each, and that was my original point. That's what's interesting. A simple equation Value = Demand / Supply is just some number crunch you do after you talk about the important ****. Trying to bat someone around the head with basic math skills is hilarious though. PS: I haven't even discussed PLEX speculators as well influencing your precious axiom. My point is even stronger when you try to argue that the supply is actually falling. I used slightly increasing PLEX supply to present a moderately conservative viewpoint. Let's see what happens in the formula when demand goes up while supply goes down:
Value = Demand / Supply
Value = A Bigger Number / A Smaller Number
Increased value is still the result. In other words, PLEX are worth more because the FW players you mentioned are buying them.
Finally, PLEX speculators engage in arbitage, which creates a temporary demand in order to set up the arbitage. Such speculators are also contributing to the demand of PLEX.
So all you really managed to do was indict supply and demand, despite your best efforts to the contrary.
Well done. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
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Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1490
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Posted - 2012.10.11 20:30:00 -
[11] - Quote
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:Hafa Anstian wrote:
Vaule != demand/supply
Price = C + I +G + X - M
Your lack of knowledge of economics is astounding, while applying keynesian models to eve isnt fool proof. It is vastly superior to using wrong formulas
Not saying Darth Whatever is right, but the formula you posted is for calculating GDP. Consumption + investment + government spending + exports - imports = GDP. Not applicable to the price of PLEX. In what universe is value not equal to demand divided by supply?
It is the very picture of economic modeling.
Go ahead, if you're an economist, give it a whirl and see what predictions you can make!
You'll find it to be entirely accurate, as every other economist has. Ever. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |

Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1500
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Posted - 2012.10.11 23:39:00 -
[12] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Andski wrote:RAGE QU1T wrote:Andski wrote:Power of Two and resculpts for PLEX seem to be the culprit for this recent spike. Wrong again, Power of Two was around when Plexes were going for 250-300 mil son So you're saying that PLEX were going for 250-300M less than two weeks ago? Huh, no they weren't, son. I took advantage of Power of Two quite a while back. Then I played EVE for several months, and I was gone two weeks ago so I don't know what happened then. Did they come up with a new Power of Two that I'm not aware of? The offer is made intermittently.
Likely an effort to convey the notion, "Just stay tuned." He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
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